Category Archives: LGBT

May 17

Equal Scouting Summit in Grapevine, TX

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2013 Equal Scouting Summit in Grapevine, TXScouts for Equality and the Inclusive Scouting Network to Support Equality at the “Equal Scouting Summit”

Next week, as the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) considers for the first time ending discrimination of gay Scouts, Scouts for Equality (SfE) and the Inclusive Scouting Network (ISN), will host the “Equal Scouting Summit.” with support from GLAAD and the Human Rights Campaign. Being held across from the BSA National Meeting, the Summit is an opportunity for supporters from across the country to come together to discuss next steps in building the foundation of an inclusive BSA.

Speakers at the Summit will include Zach Wahls, Mark Noel, Jennifer Tyrrell, Greg Bourke, Will Oliver, Pascal Tessier, Dave Rice, and Dave Knapp whose personal experiences of the BSA’s discriminatory policies moved them to become leaders of the equal Scouting movement and led to the collection of more than 1.8 million Change.org petition signatures calling for an end to the BSA’s ban on gay members. Events during the Summit will include a welcome ceremony for Eagle Scout Dave McGrath and his son Army Specialist Joe McGrath as they ride into Texas and complete their 1,800-mile bike ride for equality and the culmination of the Voice of the Gay Scout project. Gay Scouts across the country have submitted letters of what they would say to the National Council voters if they had the opportunity and during the Summit those letters will be read out loud.

All events are OPEN to the press. Additional details will be released in the coming days.

WHAT: Equal Scouting Summit
WHEN: Wednesday, May 22nd – Friday, May 24th
WHERE: Great Wolf Lodge, 100 Great Wolf Drive, Grapevine, Texas
WHO: Scouts for Equality, Inclusive Scouting Network, GLAAD, Jennifer Tyrrell, Greg Bourke, Dave Rice, Dave Knapp, Will Oliver, Pascal Tessier, Eagle Scout Dave McGrath, Army Specialist Joe McGrath, Scouts, Scout Leaders, Parents & Supporters

Press Information: Members of the press can register to attend and submit requests for interviews at www.inclusivescouting.net/media/2013-summit-registration/

For more information go to www.scoutsforequality.com/summit

Full media advisory here

May 08

The Voice of the Gay Scout

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For the past two months, BSA leadership has continually asserted that all parties have had their voices heard concerning the upcoming vote to allow openly gay scouts in the program. However this couldn’t be farther from the truth. There is one group, affected by this policy more than any other demographic, and strictly forbidden from sharing their experiences in dealing with the policy. That’s right: gay scouts, the only group directly touched by this policy, have been forced into silence.

Scout with baseball bat and gloveThe Inclusive Scouting Network is aware of this issue, and is launching a project called “The Voice of the Gay Scout”. We’re accepting letters, about one to three paragraphs in length, from gay scouts who cannot otherwise share their opinion on this policy without facing expulsion from the program. These letters will then be read by Scout allies, in uniform, to the press to ensure your voice is heard before the National Council votes in May. Share how this policy has affected you, your friends, and your values. This is your chance to tell the BSA leadership to their face how you’ve felt, and what repealing the ban would mean to you.

I have talked to many gay scouts over the last few months, and heard heartbreaking stories about what this policy has done. Broken friendships, shattered confidence, being forced into a life of lies an dishonesty, and in dire cases, the taking of one’s own life. Personal stories will create more change on this issue than any advocacy or advertising ever could. Reach out to other gay scouts you know, and urge them to send us their letter.

Letters can be sent to voice@inclusivescouting.net. If you’re interested in being an ally and reading one of the letters at the Equal Scouting Summit in Dallas, May 21-24, please email us as well! Thank you all for your hard work and dedication, please keep up the pressure, we’re just weeks away from victory!

May 07

In the News

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Dave and Joe on the roadFather-son duo biking in support of gays in Scouts stop in Orem – The McGrath family is no stranger to discrimination against gay people, especially those in their family whom they love dearly. Dave and Joe McGrath, a father son duo, are riding 1,800 miles by bicycle from Idaho to Texas in order to take a stand against gay discrimination and with hopes to save the lives of young men who are gay. They BSA is going to hold a vote on May 23rd to determine whether or not to accept gay youth into the Boy Scouts, a change in the way they have operated for the past several decades. The McGraths are riding mainly unsupported and are inviting any supporters to join them riding or in donations.

Follow their daily updates and support their journey at Old Scouts Promise.

Rick Perry: Boy Scouts Must Resist ‘Flavor Of The Month’ Pro-Gay Views – Governor Rick Perry continues to speak out against LGBT equality in the Boy Scouts. In this article he equates the shift in public sentiment to pro gay as “pop culture” and “flavor of the month” type of thinking. He also goes further to compare the fight for gay people’s rights as being similar to the fight to end slavery, but ends up getting some key facts straight.

“The fact is, this is a private organization. Their values and principles have worked for a century now, and for pop culture to come in and try to tear that up because it just happens to be the flavor of the month, so to speak, and to tear apart one of the great organizations that have served millions of young men … that is just not appropriate,” Perry said during a discussion on the Family Research Council’s “Stand With Scouts Sunday”

Religion Beyond the Right – Ever since the announcement was made by the BSA that it will be voting on a proposal to lift the gay ban on youth within the organization, religions across the spectrum have spoken out. From the far right who denounce any change in current policies, to the middle and one left to more liberal religions who want the entire ban lifted, it seems that one issue has been forgotten. According to BSA bylaws, every religions teachings are to be treated equally. However, to date, the BSA’s actions have not adhered to its own policy. With the vote coming it would be wise for the BSA to listen to each religions teachings and take them into consideration for the vote.

Boy Scout Policy on Gays Doesn’t Go Far Enough, Says L.A. Group – The Western Los Angeles County Council of the BSA announced that it believes the proposed amendment to allow only gay youth should be amended to include gay leaders, volunteers and staff as well. This council believes that the proposal just does not go far enough in the fight for equality of LGBT people.

Rick Perry: ‘Gay’ Boy Scouts? ‘Not on my watch’ – Rick Perry, Governor of Texas, has joined forces with the Family Research Council to try and influence the proposal to allow gay youth to be members, to be voted down. Perry also stated that he stands by, and hopes the American people will say, “Not on My Watch”, to the proposal.

Rep. Steve Palazzo Claims Boy Scouts are ‘Bullied, Extorted’ for Banning Gays (Video) – Republican Steve Palazzo also joined other supporters Sunday with the Family Research Council’s “Stand With Scouts” webcast where he stated that he believes the Boy Scouts of America is being bullied, harassed and extorted for banning gays. Palazzo also went so far as to ask for the removal of all “agitators” from these discussions, but did not identify or explain how he thinks this would be carried out.

“The Boy Scouts are actually being bullied worse than any group or organization that has ever been bullied before,” said Rep. Palazzo. “They’ve been intimidated, extorted for corporate funds, contributions.”

“They are being harassed and, at the end of the day, they are also being ridiculed by some in the liberal media. And so if I can do anything, I’m going to lend my voice and my strength to them and tell them to stand strong [against allowing gays].”"

May 03

In the News

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Let Me Get One Thing Straight About The Gays – There have always been controversies over whether there should be gay people in the military, major league sports and Scouting, but LGBT people have always been there and always will be. People wonder if gay people can maintain long term relationships and the answer is the same. So, it boils down to the real question, which is whether or not gay people should be allowed to say they’re gay. The answer there? Of course they should! LGBT people have always existed, will always be in every part of society and whose right is it to tell them that they can’t say who they are?

Letter: LDS and Scouting – The LDS Church has come out in support of the BSA’s new proposal to allow gay youth into Scouting, but to continue it’s policy banning all gay adults in any capacity. The LDS Church is trying to keep policies for everyone involved in Scouting within their own religious belief system, but would be seen as more tolerant if they allowed gay adults in Scouting.

Ousted Boy Scouts Leader Jennifer Tyrrell Joins NOH8 Campaign – Jennifer Tyrrell, a gay mom who was den mother for her son’s Scout troop, was ousted last year by the BSA for being openly gay. She has recently joined the NOH8 campaign and is seen in the article posing for NOH8 in her Scout’s uniform with the traditional duct tape across her mouth and NOH8 sign on her cheek. Tyrrell is an open opponent to the BSA’s ban on gays in Scouting and is also working to reverse Ohio’s 2004 amendment forbidding the state to recognize any marriage that is not heterosexual.

VIEW FROM AWAY: Collins’ merit badge – NBA center, Jason Collins, had become uncomfortable keeping his sexual orientation a secret and earlier this week made a public announcement that he is gay. He is now the first openly gay athlete in pro sports, a change that will hopefully lead to more players feeling comfortable coming out to the public. The Boy Scouts have offered up a feeble proposal that would allow gay youth, but continue it’s discrimination against gay leaders. As Scouting is all about families, the Scouts need to take a hint and move forward with the times allowing an all inclusive membership. Being LGBT just isn’t that big of a deal in the public’s eyes anymore.

BSA should accept gay Scouts, leaders – In a vote to come later this month the BSA has proposed to lift the ban on openly gay youth, but continue forward with it’s ban on openly gay adult leaders (anyone starting when they turn 18 years old). This proposal has people on both sides of the controversy saying that the inconsistency within the proposal is not acceptable. Some religious groups will pull their charters for troops if gay youth is allowed in Scouting and many of those in favor of inclusiveness for all feel the proposal would ultimately not be enough of a change.

Scouts’ proposal would ‘increase boy-on-boy sexual contact’ – John Stemberger, founder of OnMyHonor.net and an Eagle Scout has sent a letter to the more than 1400 members of the National Council who will be voting on the BSA’s proposed change that would allow openly gay Scouts to participate in Scouting until their 18th birthday. He believes that if the proposal is passed it would lead to unwanted activities between boys. On the other side, proponents of allowing all LGBT people to participate fully in Scouting, are not satisfied with the level of the new proposal either. This group feels that the step would fall short of what is truly needed to make an acceptable change within the Boy Scouts of America.

“Opening the Boy Scouts to boys who openly proclaim being sexually attracted to other boys and/or openly identify themselves as ‘gay’ will inevitably create an increase of boy-on-boy sexual contact,” says John Stemberger, Eagle Scout and founder of OnMyHonor.Net, in an open letter to Scout leaders.

Apr 22

BSA Coalition Offers Alternate Resolution on Adult Members, Leaders, and Parents

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A coalition of Scout leaders led by Jay Lenrow from the Northeast Region has submitted an alternate resolution to the BSA to allow units to welcome adult members, leaders, and parents regardless of sexual orientation. This resolution was delivered to the BSA this morning, the deadline for consideration at the BSA’s 2013 annual meeting next month.

Cover Letter for BSA Resolution on Adult Leadership

BSA Resolution on Adult Leadership

The relevant language from the resolution reads:

All adult applicants must possess the moral, educational, and emotional
qualities that the Boy Scouts of America deems necessary to afford positive
leadership to youth. The applicant must also be the correct age, subscribe to the
precepts of the Declaration of Religious Principle (duty to God), and abide by the
Scout Oath and the Scout Law.

That each Chartered Organization of the Boy Scouts of America shall have
the right (but not be required) to grant membership to individuals who, in the best
judgment of that Chartered Organization, demonstrate behavior that exemplifies
the highest level of good conduct and respect for others in accordance with the
mission of the BSA and is consistent with the principles and teachings of that
Chartered Organization, without regard to sexual orientation.

They have asked for help in encouraging the BSA’s National Council to allow a vote on, and then vote for the resolution. You can find your local BSA council by putting your ZIP code into BSA’s web form at BeAScout.org.

Apr 19

Press Release on Proposed Policy Change

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FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
April 19, 2013

Press contacts:
Christopher Hayes (518) 466-4386
Mark Noel (603) 387-7731
Matt Comer (336) 391-9528

INCLUSIVE SCOUTING NETWORK VOICES RESERVATION AND CONCERN OVER PROPOSED GAY SCOUT POLICY

Proposed policy would maintain institutionalized discrimination, limit opportunities of openly gay Boy Scout youth

The Inclusive Scouting Network, a group of current and former members of the Boy Scouts of America founded shortly after the Supreme Court’s Boy Scouts v. Dale decision in 2000, is voicing reservation and concern over today’s proposed policy change by the Boy Scouts of America regarding gay members and leaders. The Executive Council of the Boy Scouts of America released their proposed policy today, which keeps the gay ban in place for adult leaders but would prohibit kicking out openly gay Scout youth members “on the basis of sexual orientation or preference alone” [emphasis added]. The policy must be voted on at a national meeting of more than 1,400 Scout representatives in May and would not go into effect until 2014.

“We believe the proposed policy is a small step forward, but does not go nearly far enough in addressing issues of discrimination against gay Boy Scout members and leaders,” said Christopher Hayes, one of the co-founders of The Inclusive Scouting Network. “This policy maintains institutionalized discrimination, leaves open the possibility of harassment and bullying of gay youth, and continues to send the wrong message to youth members that discrimination is acceptable.”

“Under this policy, every gay Scout will eventually be kicked out — it’s only a question of when,” said Mark Noel, another co-founder of The Inclusive Scouting Network. “Allowing a 16 year old to stay and complete his Eagle is a step forward, but why would he stay when the same policy will kick him out as soon as he turns 18? The message here is that LGBT people still aren’t welcome in the BSA and have no future in Scouting.”

The proposed policy is concerning on several levels, including:
• the limitation for Scout advancement past the age of 18,
• the continued institutional message that discrimination is acceptable,
• the implication that LGBT youth don’t know what they’re doing when they come out,
• the lack of anti-bullying and anti-harassment provisions for gay youth in chartered units with anti-gay theological positions, and
• the lack of any provision granting recourse to youth denied opportunities for membership under this proposed policy.

The Inclusive Scouting Network believes the proposed policy, though deeply flawed, is better than the current policy and therefore urges representatives to the national meeting in May to pass it. However, the organization will continue working to ensure that the Boy Scouts of America will become a safe and affirming environment for all Scouts, regardless of sexual orientation, gender identity and religious belief. The only acceptable policy is a comprehensive national policy of non-discrimination that does not expire with age.

“The Boy Scouts of America’s proposed policy is a delaying tactic in dealing with important issues of inclusion and discrimination,” said ISN co-founder Matt Comer. “This issue will not go away, as indicated by the Scouts’ own surveys showing a majority of their own youth members ages 16-18 oppose the discriminatory policy.”

Over ten thousand people across the nation and the globe are speaking out against the Boy Scouts of America’s continued discriminatory practices by wearing the Network’s Inclusive Scouting Award. Introduced in 2002, the Inclusive Scouting Award is a small, multicolored patch designed to mimic other adult leader awards worn on the scout uniform and modeled after the “safe space” sticker programs used in high schools that research has shown to be very effective at improving the environment for LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender) and other at-risk youth. The Inclusive Scouting Award identifies wearers as supporters of inclusive scouting and allies to Scouts and Scouters threatened with exclusion by the BSA’s discriminatory membership policies. Because the emblem has never been approved by the BSA, its motto is “You earn it by wearing it.”

The two ropes of the square knot on the Inclusive Scouting Award patch symbolize religion and sexual orientation. One rope is silver and purple – colors the BSA reserves for religious emblems. The other rope is rainbow-colored – a pattern that is representative of diversity and is used widely in LGBT communities as a symbol of pride and unity. According to reported BSA statements, the proposed change to membership policies would apply only to sexual orientation and would not change BSA’s longstanding national policy of barring all atheist, agnostic, and non-theist youth and adults from the program.

Inclusive Scouting Network
PO Box 2853
Malta, NY 12020
info@inclusivescouting.net
www.inclusivescouting.net

Press resources: http://www.inclusivescouting.net/media/

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Mar 26

NBC’s New Normal Airs Boy Scout Episode

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Tonight, NBC’s The New Normal airs its Boy Scout episode, where the character David’s membership is revoked for ‘homosexual conduct’ after other scoutmasters meet his husband, Bryan.

‘The New Normal’: Justin Bartha talks tonight’s episode on the Boy Scouts’ gay ban (Entertainment Weekly)

Episode of NBC’s The New Normal to take on Boy Scouts gay ban this week (Gay Star News)

“The New Normal” Addresses Boy Scouts’ Ban (Queerty)

Mar 05

In the News

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Carly Rae Jepsen, Train pull out of Boy Scout event over gay ban – Tuesday morning Carly Rae Jepsen Tweeted that she is a supporter of equality and will not be playing at the BSA’s National Jamboree scheduled for this summer. Band Train had already expressed their opinion and backed out unless the BSA lifts the ban before the Jamboree. Thousands of petitions and rewuests by individuals and GLAAD prompted the two bands to review their decision.

Train Backs Out of Boy Scouts Jamboree Over Gay Ban – Train, the band based out of San Francisco, has bowed out of playing at the BSA’s National Jamboree due to the BSA’s ban on openly gay people. They were made aware of this policy by GLAAD, Derek Nance and a petition with over 3,000 signature’s asking them not to play.

PHOTOS: Eagle Scout Delivers 120,000 Petitions Calling For NatGeo To Denounce Boy Scouts’ Gay Ban – Earlier today in Washington, DC openly gay WIll Oliver and members of GLAAD delivered over 120,000 petition signatures to National Geographic in an attempt to persuade them to acknowledge the BSa’s ban on gays and to cancel the showing of new TV show ‘Are you Tougher than a Boy Scout?’

By failing to acknowledge the Boy Scouts’ discriminatory policy, National Geographic Channel is turning a cold shoulder to gay and allied viewers. Silence implies apathy towards all the Scouts and leaders who have been forced to hide who they are,” Oliver said before delivering the petitions. “Over 120,000 people have spoken — not to demand that the show be canceled — but to ask that National Geographic Channel reaffirm its core belief in non-discrimination.”

Boy Scouts, Dump Your ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’ Policy (Part 2): The Exclusion of Gays – A brief history of the Boy Scouts Ban on gays in Scouting beginning with the first memorandum in 1978 through the upcoming vote in May.

Culture warriors in Boy Scouts gay membership battle keep hurling hand grenades at each other – The clash between sides in the debate over whether or not the BSA will lift its ban on gays in scouting continues. The LGBT community likens their position to the civil rights movement and is gaining traction with a lot of national companies and members across the country.

Boy Scouts: Tony Perkins Praises Rick Perry And 60 Texas Republicans Supporting Gay Ban –

Family Research Council (FRC) president Tony Perkins is praising a recent open anti-gay letter to the Boy Scouts of America signed by over 60 Texas Republican elected officials. The letter, which originally appeared on a website run by Texas Values, say the signatories “strongly encourage the Boy Scouts of America to stick with their decades of support for family values and moral principles.

National Geographic Rejects Gay Scout’s Petition Request – National Geographic did reject the request to put a disclaimer on their new show airing tonight called, ‘Are You Tougher than a Boy Scout?’, but did offer Will Oliver space to write a blog on the shows website.

Mar 04

In the News

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Local Boy Scouts gathering opinions on gay ban – The Laurel Highlands Council of the Boy Scouts of America which is comprised of about 29,000 members and are asking their volunteers to consider the upcoming vote by the BSA to overturn their discriminatory practices of banning gay members and leaders from the organization.

Glenn Gruenhagen, Minnesota Rep: Homosexuality Is An ‘Unhealthy Sexual Addiction’ – Not only does MN Republican Glenn Gruenhagen says they homosexuality is an unhealthy addiction, he also tries to use scientific genome mapping to declare ‘there is no gay gene’ and therefore homosexuality is not a predetermined characteristic like ones skin color.

FRC Lauds Texas Leaders for Backing Boy Scouts’ No-Gay Policy – As many as 60 elected officials from Texas including Gov. Rick Perry have written an open letter to the BSA in hopes that by showing their support of the BSA’s ban on homosexuals, it will sway the organization to continue their current discriminatory practices.

FRC President Tony Perkins said in a statement Friday, referring to an open letter the leaders have written to the BSA. “As leaders from the Boy Scouts organization meet in Texas, we hope that seeing the solidarity of so many Texas leaders will encourage them to reaffirm their current policy on homosexuality.

Boy Scouts should resist allowing gay leaders, members – Letter writer takes a dim view of any policy change.

GLAAD to Carly Rae Jepsen: Denounce Scouts’ Gay Ban, Maybe? – Carly Rae Jepsen and Train are both scheduled to headline at the BSA’s national jamboree in July, but Train has announced that they will not perform unless the BSA votes to overturn its current policy on banning gays in May. Derek Nance started the petition to bring light to the bands and is now looking for additional support to send to Jepsen. Sign petition via article.

Feb 25

In the News

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Tax Break For Boy Scouts Who Don’t Discriminate – A newly proposed California law would end tax breaks for organizations that discriminate if passed.

Letter: Gays leading Boy Scouts? An unimaginable moral affront – (TC Palm) Letter writer has the vapors over proposed change; cites Sodom, Gomorrah, and the fall of the Roman Empire.

Susquehanna Valley United Way ‘pauses’ Boy Scout contribution until homosexual policy settled – The decision to ‘pause’ funds going towards the Susquehanna Valley BSA Council was decided in a unanimous vote Friday. They will hold the funding until the policy is changed to be non-exclusionary of gay members and leaders.

Once upon a time, slavery was the rule of the day, women couldn’t vote and ‘separate but equal’ was okay. There comes a day when we have to change our policies that are exclusionary.

California lawmaker hopes tax bill will break Boy Scouts – (World Mag) SB323 seeks to revoke tax exemption status for youth groups that do not comply with CA non-discriminatory laws, but Dacus of the Pacific Justice Institute says it’s the BSA that being discriminated against.

“If they are successful in this … then the next step is to try to strip away tax exemption from churches as well,” Dacus said. “It is part of the radical homosexual rights movement, it’s to punish and silence those who have a religious belief that does not embrace and accept homosexuality.”

Letter: Boy Scout oath is clear on morality – (Herald-Dispatch.com) Letter cites homosexuality as morally wrong as defined by the bible: Also, refers to Sodom and Gommorah.

Opinion: Across the spectrum – Boy Scout discrimination must end – (The PAW Providence Academy)

The problem with the supporters’ arguments, however, is simple: the Boy Scouts’ current policy is discriminatory. Although religious leaders are right in stating that their moral beliefs condemn homosexuality, they’re wrong in thinking that those beliefs justify treating gays as second-class citizens.

Can You Renounce Your Eagle Scout Award – (SF Weekly) Many Eagle Scouts have sent in their awards and renounced their status with the BSA, but what does this really mean?

So it’s clear that Eagle Scouts can send their regalia to BSA HQ. But does this mean you’re no longer an Eagle Scout? That answer is no.

Feb 21

In the News

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Community reacts to Boy Scouts’ LGBT Controversy – University of Delaware’s student, Sophomore, Erik Peterson who was a Boy Scout of 12 years is among many in the community that believe the BSA should allow LGBT into the BSA. There are now rainbow flags flying all across the Green of the campus in support of the proposed change, reflecting the opinions of the majority here in this town.

Boy Scout leaders on both sides of gay membership issue seek input – Members and leaders in Boy Scouts on both sides of the issue of rather to allow gays in Scouts are mobilizing petitions and other types of support to help sway the vote in May to their sides.

“In a Syracuse.com poll some 60 percent favored changing the policy to admit gays, with nearly 46 percent saying the national council should insist that local units admit gays.”

Senator Lara Introduces Youth Equality Act

On the heels of the controversy surrounding the Boys Scouts of America’s policy to exclude members of the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) community as scouts or adult leaders, today State Senator Ricardo Lara (D-Long Beach) and Equality California announced the introduction of new legislation that would remove a state tax exemption for any youth group, including the Boy Scouts, that discriminate against members and leaders on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity.

Feb 06

BSA Postpones Any Action Until May

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Today, the Boy Scouts of America announced that they are postponing until May any action on the proposal to revise their discriminatory membership policies.

The Inclusive Scouting Network has responded with the following statement:

While it is disappointing the Boy Scouts of America decided not to take any action on their national anti-gay membership and leadership policy today, we are encouraged knowing that this discussion, the first and only time national BSA leaders have openly indicated they are ready to accept gay Scouts, will continue.

Today’s action by the BSA’s National Executive Board is not a “no;” instead, it is an opportunity for Scouts and Scouters across the country, from the local level to the national level, to continue to press for positive change. We are hopeful that this process will include Scouts and Scouters who have already been subjected to discrimination by the Boy Scouts of America, and we will work diligently to highlight voices of inclusion from local units and chartering organizations across the country in the lead up to May’s national council vote.

In their first edition of the Boy Scouts Handbook in 1911, the Boy Scouts promised that “every American boy shall have the opportunity of becoming a good scout.” It is time for the Boy Scouts of America to live up to the great American ideals and principles they have embodied for more than a century by saying, “We don’t discriminate and discrimination is not okay — period.”